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| The DotA Topic | |
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| Topic Started: Oct 29 2010, 01:06 PM (1,347 Views) | |
| DuskRising | Oct 29 2010, 01:06 PM Post #1 |
AKA MetalYoshi366
  ![]](http://z1.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)
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So, since it came up in another topic that we have some dota players on the forum I made a fancy topic here. Well, I've been playing for a little over a year, so that probably takes me out of the noob category but I'm still not very good. My best heroes tend to be ganking heroes like Lina, Rylai, and Venge. I've been playing Rhasta and Luna a lot lately as well and that's been going pretty well. How about you guys? How long have you been playing and what are your favorite heroes? |
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| spasmodia | Oct 29 2010, 08:42 PM Post #2 |
smda
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I have been playing for 2.5 years! I play solo heroes and VS. In em games I just -random agi for lols |
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| phoenix | Oct 29 2010, 09:49 PM Post #3 |
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I have been playing for 2.6 years! I play any hero but most of my time is spent flaming retard pub noobs for their item- or skill-builds. I wrote a nifty guide please go rate it a 10. |
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| DuskRising | Oct 30 2010, 12:41 PM Post #4 |
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AKA MetalYoshi366
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Well, link me to the guide and I'll be the judge of that. |
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| phoenix | Oct 30 2010, 01:25 PM Post #5 |
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It's on the official site. http://www.playdota.com/guides/the-complete-linkens-sphere You may have read it before! |
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| DuskRising | Nov 1 2010, 12:49 PM Post #6 |
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AKA MetalYoshi366
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I'm not a member of the site so I cant vote =p Also, I'm not really a big linkens fan, I prefer bkb. I hate to say that tho cuz it seems like you put so much time into testing how every skill works with it. Edited by DuskRising, Nov 1 2010, 12:52 PM.
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| spasmodia | Nov 2 2010, 02:17 AM Post #7 |
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smda
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It's all about the herocombos you're facing. BKB is useless in a game where you face a ton of bashes for example and it might be more beneficial to build Linken's if the other team has a hero like Rexxar or SD. It's beneficial to have all that knowledge of what Linken's blocks exactly so that you KNOW for certain the advantages and disadvantages of buying it in any given game. As you said, BKB and Linken's are two items that play pretty much the same role, so it's important to be able to decide which one is better to buy. |
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| phoenix | Nov 2 2010, 02:24 AM Post #8 |
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Also, my guide helps to counter enemy LS buys and even to take advantage of it (Naga Song for instance). And I'm not saying LS is the best item in the game. Not at all. I like the item because of it's quirkyness, and I wanted to clear some of the mystery around it. I hope you read the Strategy section.  Get a legit W3 and play with us! Also, 90,000 views. |
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| DuskRising | Nov 3 2010, 01:13 PM Post #9 |
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AKA MetalYoshi366
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Well, I tend to only go for bkb on strength heroes like sven. When I play Luna or something I go for a pure damage, no health build. And on heroes like rylai where it might be useful i could never farm a linkens. I might get a real copy, but then again with Dota 2 on the horizon I might just wait it out for that. |
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| phoenix | Nov 3 2010, 02:16 PM Post #10 |
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Those are fair points however you really should consider BKB on many Agi carries (and even some int carries like Storm). BKB isn't a STR hero item! |
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| DuskRising | Nov 4 2010, 12:38 PM Post #11 |
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AKA MetalYoshi366
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I'm not saying I never go for it, but its a luxury item for me. |
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| spasmodia | Nov 4 2010, 09:44 PM Post #12 |
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smda
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A pure damage build on Luna is terrible considering the way to maximize damage dealt by your ultimate (which will be your strongest source of damage output until like min 40) is to maximize the time you spend alive. This isn't .48b--if you die, the ultimate goes away, and with s*** poor HP, a BKB is the best way to keep yourself alive and kicking, ESPECIALLY in pubs. Just try it out in a few games and you'll wonder why you ever played DotA without buying it. Carrying in DotA is not just dependent on damage, it's dependent on damage per SECOND, so maximizing those seconds at the same time you increase your damage is the most efficient and effective way to carry. That means if you plan to carry and the opposing team has even a single stun, it is ALWAYS a good idea to build BKB. The HP and small amount of damage it adds means the buildup won't be totally useless. In case I'm being vague let me add one more point. You should buy BKB on any hero who will get decent farm and who will be focused by the other team in teamfights. This means if you're a highly obvious hero, like Storm, who everyone will see when he ultimates into the fight, you should buy BKB, and it also means that if you're a hero whose single target/AoE damage output is very high, like Luna, Maiden, or Bloodseeker, you should buy BKB. The only heroes you shouldn't buy BKB on are heroes who don't farm or one shot and they're done heroes like Earthshaker. Last note: you should always buy BKB on Dirge |
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| DuskRising | Nov 5 2010, 12:06 PM Post #13 |
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AKA MetalYoshi366
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Ok, let me give you an example. Last night I played storm panda, my team was dragon knight, ancient apparition, slardar, and enigma. Panda isn't one of my regulars, but I thought that I had good enough support to choose him. Pandas all about having a large mana pool, so I left base with boots and 3 tangoes, rushed a bloodstone, and eventually made treads and an orchid. My logic playing panda is that I shouldnt be getting hit enough to justify getting a bkb. If enigma ults and gets 2 or 3 of the enemy heroes, then thats a great chance for me to ball lightning in, nab a kill or two and then get out. Since pandas so item dependent for mana, getting a bkb early on means I need to sacrifice a lot of my mana pool. I never got focused because I was never the first in. I know that was very situational, but the thing is all dota builds are. I cant say much about pub games, since I rarely do those. Most of the time I know all the people I'm playing with or against. Let me say that in housing with these guys is on a totally different level than pubs. The teams arent exactly the same every night, but there's a few members that usually end up on each side. The team I play against is really good at coordinating ganks with pushes and we've had more than one 15 minute game. Their objective is to shut us down in the early game and prevent anyone from reaching carry point. Uh, I think I went a little off topic so let me bring it back home. If I'm playing a hero like rylai, I'm gonna spend a lot of money buying support oriented items like a courier, and both kinds of wards, because the other team likes to counter ward us. If i'm in housing as rylai its pretty rare for me to be able to farm up any high ticket items and more specifically, if I dont get any int boosting items on rylai I might not have enough mana for her very costly ult. |
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| phoenix | Nov 5 2010, 04:40 PM Post #14 |
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BKB or Linken is -core- on panda in professional games and laughable without either. Proper mana management and a solo lane go a long way toward keeping your mana at acceptable levels. Glad you play at a level above pubs though. Maybe spasm and I should get Garena. |
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| spasmodia | Nov 5 2010, 05:11 PM Post #15 |
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smda
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I only mentioned CM because you mentioned her as a candidate for buying BKB in one of your previous posts. If you are not getting hit as stormpanda your opponents either are complete noobs or have no stuns, which also implies that they are complete noobs. Of course if you have some skilled disablers on your team you might be able to slip by without buying a BKB (and your lineup is ridiculously imbalanced in terms of stuns in a pub/inhouse/whatever setting), but a stormpanda with BKB has his effectiveness increased by a factor of at least three due to the fact that with BKB, he can actually initiate without fear rather than waiting for a hero like Enigma to land a perfect combo. As you said, it's important to buy items to complement his manapool, but storm is not a single-faceted hero and buying a BKB improves his effectiveness in ways that increased mana cannot. After the nerfs he's taken it's probably a bad idea to buy BKB item 1 as was the norm in the past; a sheeper first item after treads/bottle/null(s) would be idea. Do not buy bloodstone on storm; bloodstone is a crappy item that isn't cost effective and takes way too long to farm. Sheeper may be about as expensive but the buildup is nicer (you could still build pers and dismantle it later if that's how you roll, and ultimate orb rocks on storm), the disable helps your team by immense amounts, Storm can farm it quickly with Remnant, and on top of all that sheeping someone gives you an extra overload to throw out. |
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| phoenix | Nov 6 2010, 09:23 AM Post #16 |
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BKB still isn't core on Storm in non-China comp games, though... just watched a few Euro replays. Storm should never get Bloodstone, as spasm said. The core choices are LS, BKB, Hex. Extension choices are Orchid, LS, BKB, Hex, and I guess maybe Shivas. |
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| DuskRising | Nov 6 2010, 01:04 PM Post #17 |
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AKA MetalYoshi366
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I guess its just my playstyle then i'm not the type to usually go around solo ganking I'm pretty dependent on my team. Also, I watched the replay from last night and I noticed a few things I didnt' mention here. First off their team was puck, kunka, tinker, venom, and dark seer, and you'll probably notice that they dont have a hard carry or any accessible stuns on their team. This resulted in them trying to make a lot of team pushes which went very well for them in the early-mid game because they had puck and admiral to initiate. Once enigma got his blink tho, we got off a lot of good initiations and I did get focused, but with no stuns nothing was really stopping me from just ball lightning away. So, a lot of that match was pretty lucky on my part. I ended up like 12/5 or something but I dont really use storm very effectively which is why i feel like i'm always low on mana. Also, I forgot this but before the final push I was building a bkb but the game ended before i could finish it =[. |
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| spasmodia | Nov 6 2010, 02:06 PM Post #18 |
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smda
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How do you guys play? Draft games? -ap games? I was thinking of lineups yesterday and a squad of tide/drow SF vs/kunka for their team would have made for an interesting game. They would need those defensive heroes to keep their team farmed while deterring your team's really strong initiation combos. The lineup you posted is decently good for them, but they don't have much counter initiation once your team gets some blinks going, and even if they try pushing your team is still really strong in early game, so they don't have that much of an advantage. PS: One BKB completely rapes every hero on their team. If you DK and slardar had gone BKB item one it would have been so donegames it's unbelievable. They wouldn't have been able to do anything to you rofl Edited by spasmodia, Nov 6 2010, 02:46 PM.
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| phoenix | Nov 6 2010, 03:05 PM Post #19 |
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BKB is anti-nuke as well, not just anti-stun, don't forget. With that much magic damage on their team it would have been wise, I think. |
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| phoenix | Nov 6 2010, 09:45 PM Post #20 |
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Anyway, not here to criticize your item choices, as they're always situational. Just discussing. Did you do the Phoenix quest? |
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